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I'm after a little travel camera, thinking of the Canon Eos M, since I don't really know anything about the mirrorless market I thought I'd see if anyone on here used one.
Seems relatively cheap and it's APC so it should be decent enough. Mainly worried about the autofocus, is it any good on mirrorless cameras yet?
Seems relatively cheap and it's APC so it should be decent enough. Mainly worried about the autofocus, is it any good on mirrorless cameras yet?
In reply to Richard Carter:
I wouldn't go for APS-C if it's primarily small you're after, because the lenses will be the same size as APS-C Dslrs. m4/3 has 2 tricks for reducing lens sizes - smaller sensor and software fixing of geometric distortion built into the spec.
Having said that these Sony NEX things seem to have more than stellar sensors on them if you can put up with the lens choices. I think Mr Craggs has one.
Re your AF query, Contrast Detect Autofocus used by mirrorless systems is very fast and accurate for the vast majority of stuff, but still poor for C-AF fast action.
I wouldn't go for APS-C if it's primarily small you're after, because the lenses will be the same size as APS-C Dslrs. m4/3 has 2 tricks for reducing lens sizes - smaller sensor and software fixing of geometric distortion built into the spec.
Having said that these Sony NEX things seem to have more than stellar sensors on them if you can put up with the lens choices. I think Mr Craggs has one.
Re your AF query, Contrast Detect Autofocus used by mirrorless systems is very fast and accurate for the vast majority of stuff, but still poor for C-AF fast action.
In reply to JDal:
I'm coming from FX so APC is small enough - mainly just bored or carry heavy stuff around :-P The lenses can be smaller because they don't have to be retro focus I guess.
I looked at the Nikon J2 but haven't even seen one in the shops and the sensor being that much smaller put me off. The AF sounds good though. Hmmm. 4/3rds cameras kind of put me off because they seem either plasticy or faux-retro, neither are things I like really. Ok I think I've convinced myself, cheers :-P
I'm coming from FX so APC is small enough - mainly just bored or carry heavy stuff around :-P The lenses can be smaller because they don't have to be retro focus I guess.
I looked at the Nikon J2 but haven't even seen one in the shops and the sensor being that much smaller put me off. The AF sounds good though. Hmmm. 4/3rds cameras kind of put me off because they seem either plasticy or faux-retro, neither are things I like really. Ok I think I've convinced myself, cheers :-P
In reply to JDal:
Can second the comment about the sensors on the NEX. They are outstanding.
To be honest I wish I had bought one of those instead of my D7K.
Can second the comment about the sensors on the NEX. They are outstanding.
To be honest I wish I had bought one of those instead of my D7K.
In reply to Richard Carter: I've moved to a smaller camera recently for portability reasons and did quite a bit of research first. I was strongly tempted by the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 (25-600mm f2.8 lens, compact body). But downloading a couple of sample photos put me off. The noise levels at ISO 100 are just too high for me, despite what the reviews say. It depends on what you want to do, of course, but I came to the conclusion that APS-C is a minimum standard.
So, trying to keep quality to a reasonable level but still with a compact camera size in mind it ended up being a fight between the Nikon D3200 and the Sony Alpha 37.
The Sony won in the end, mostly because it's a bit cheaper. The EOS-M looks great, but slightly too expensive for my purposes. I doubt that many here have actually used one: it's not been out long. But it may well be the ultimate travel camera (for now).
So, trying to keep quality to a reasonable level but still with a compact camera size in mind it ended up being a fight between the Nikon D3200 and the Sony Alpha 37.
The Sony won in the end, mostly because it's a bit cheaper. The EOS-M looks great, but slightly too expensive for my purposes. I doubt that many here have actually used one: it's not been out long. But it may well be the ultimate travel camera (for now).
In reply to JDal:
I have been stunned by the images from the NEX-7, despite being a sceptic initially. Just waiting for a lower-profile lens to come on the market, later this month I think, then it will be really portable.
Chris
I have been stunned by the images from the NEX-7, despite being a sceptic initially. Just waiting for a lower-profile lens to come on the market, later this month I think, then it will be really portable.
Chris
In reply to Richard Carter:
If you want to just dip your toe in, try a Panasonic GF (1, 2 or 3). They go at reasonable prices on Ebay and seem to be holding value.
I use a 2nd hand GF-1 with 20mm (this lens quite expensive, even 2nd hand) as my pocket cameras and it still holds it own with IQ (at base ISO). Friends use GF-1 with kit zoonm and seem happy enough.
If you want to just dip your toe in, try a Panasonic GF (1, 2 or 3). They go at reasonable prices on Ebay and seem to be holding value.
I use a 2nd hand GF-1 with 20mm (this lens quite expensive, even 2nd hand) as my pocket cameras and it still holds it own with IQ (at base ISO). Friends use GF-1 with kit zoonm and seem happy enough.
In reply to Richard Carter: yhm.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I have the same feeling about my Sony sensored E-M5. And I don't have a problem with the noise, this "4/3 so it's too noisy" is way overstated. More to do with early Panny sensors I think. It's the small body/lens combo's I really like over the APS-C offerings.
This shot of a church concert sums it up in a way, there was no photography during the performance. I used the TINY 45mm f1.8 on my E_M5, everything set to silent and no AF assist light. Camera sat on knee with LCD flipped out, ISO 3200/f1.8, rubbish ambient light, unassisted AF was really fast and accurate. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8198886943_caffa2cd13_o.jpg
> I have been stunned by the images from the NEX-7, despite being a sceptic initially. Just waiting for a lower-profile lens to come on the market, later this month I think, then it will be really portable.
I have the same feeling about my Sony sensored E-M5. And I don't have a problem with the noise, this "4/3 so it's too noisy" is way overstated. More to do with early Panny sensors I think. It's the small body/lens combo's I really like over the APS-C offerings.
This shot of a church concert sums it up in a way, there was no photography during the performance. I used the TINY 45mm f1.8 on my E_M5, everything set to silent and no AF assist light. Camera sat on knee with LCD flipped out, ISO 3200/f1.8, rubbish ambient light, unassisted AF was really fast and accurate. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8198886943_caffa2cd13_o.jpg
In reply to Richard Carter:
I have't actively used any of these (sorry!) to take pictures with but I was having a look at them in a shop this weekend and was really struck by the quality of the interfaces(both ergonomics and software). I thought the Canon would be really hard to use because they've really gone for a small size on the body and are very minimalist with the buttons etc. The Sony units have a slightly bigger body which felt much nicer and gives the oppertunity to place the controls in a more natural locations on the body. The extra size of the Sony didn't seem like much of a compromise in the end bacause it's the lenses that dominates the pack size.
Hope this helps,
Mark
I have't actively used any of these (sorry!) to take pictures with but I was having a look at them in a shop this weekend and was really struck by the quality of the interfaces(both ergonomics and software). I thought the Canon would be really hard to use because they've really gone for a small size on the body and are very minimalist with the buttons etc. The Sony units have a slightly bigger body which felt much nicer and gives the oppertunity to place the controls in a more natural locations on the body. The extra size of the Sony didn't seem like much of a compromise in the end bacause it's the lenses that dominates the pack size.
Hope this helps,
Mark
In reply to JDal:
It's a good shot, but the Panasonic I mentioned as being too noisy has a sensor much smaller than four thirds (1/2.3"). The problem I have with noise is that the photo looks OK until you crop it, and then you start to get an irritating fuzziness creeping in. That really interferes with some shots, particularly a landscape.
It's a bit like when people used to argue that you don't need more pixels on a sensor, because (say) 10MP is enough to print out to A3 size (or whatever the guideline is). Yes, but if you crop out half of the shot you only have 5MP and the resolution is noticeably weak at that level. Nikons' D3200 has 24MP: which sounds like overkill. But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. That's like having an extra 100% telephoto zoom available on a 12MP camera, whilst at the same time having the wider angle available for improvements to the composition.
> I have the same feeling about my Sony sensored E-M5. And I don't have a problem with the noise, this "4/3 so it's too noisy" is way overstated. More to do with early Panny sensors I think. It's the small body/lens combo's I really like over the APS-C offerings.
>
> This shot of a church concert sums it up in a way, there was no photography during the performance. I used the TINY 45mm f1.8 on my E_M5, everything set to silent and no AF assist light. Camera sat on knee with LCD flipped out, ISO 3200/f1.8, rubbish ambient light, unassisted AF was really fast and accurate. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8198886943_caffa2cd13_o.jpg
>
> This shot of a church concert sums it up in a way, there was no photography during the performance. I used the TINY 45mm f1.8 on my E_M5, everything set to silent and no AF assist light. Camera sat on knee with LCD flipped out, ISO 3200/f1.8, rubbish ambient light, unassisted AF was really fast and accurate. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8198886943_caffa2cd13_o.jpg
It's a good shot, but the Panasonic I mentioned as being too noisy has a sensor much smaller than four thirds (1/2.3"). The problem I have with noise is that the photo looks OK until you crop it, and then you start to get an irritating fuzziness creeping in. That really interferes with some shots, particularly a landscape.
It's a bit like when people used to argue that you don't need more pixels on a sensor, because (say) 10MP is enough to print out to A3 size (or whatever the guideline is). Yes, but if you crop out half of the shot you only have 5MP and the resolution is noticeably weak at that level. Nikons' D3200 has 24MP: which sounds like overkill. But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. That's like having an extra 100% telephoto zoom available on a 12MP camera, whilst at the same time having the wider angle available for improvements to the composition.
Remember the OP !
...."I'm after a little travel camera".....
In reply to Andy Stephenson:
... But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. ...
Er, if you mean crop half the height and width. I think you'd get 6MP.
Nobody's arguing with the rest other than this a small cameras thread
... But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. ...
Er, if you mean crop half the height and width. I think you'd get 6MP.
Nobody's arguing with the rest other than this a small cameras thread
In reply to JDal:
> (In reply to Andy Stephenson)
> ... But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. ...
>
> Er, if you mean crop half the height and width. I think you'd get 6MP.
>
>
> Nobody's arguing with the rest other than this a small cameras thread
Well, it's 50% of the pixels. And I'm talking about small cameras, but the OP mentioned APS-C so they aren't going to be REALLY small cameras! > ... But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. ...
>
> Er, if you mean crop half the height and width. I think you'd get 6MP.
>
>
> Nobody's arguing with the rest other than this a small cameras thread
In reply to Andy Stephenson:
"And I'm talking about small cameras, but the OP mentioned APS-C so they aren't going to be REALLY small cameras!"
The EOS M, seems to be smaller than a few 4/3rds camera strangely. I'd only really use the 22mm so lenses aren't an issue I guess.
Arrgh, going to have to find a shop selling them somewhere, there's too much choice.
"And I'm talking about small cameras, but the OP mentioned APS-C so they aren't going to be REALLY small cameras!"
The EOS M, seems to be smaller than a few 4/3rds camera strangely. I'd only really use the 22mm so lenses aren't an issue I guess.
Arrgh, going to have to find a shop selling them somewhere, there's too much choice.
In reply to ChrisJD:
That Panny 20mm pancake is supposed to be an absolute gem, particularly on the Panny bodies.
That Panny 20mm pancake is supposed to be an absolute gem, particularly on the Panny bodies.
In reply to JDal:
It is - I've got one. The detail it can get (especially noticeable in portraits) can match my DSLR with L lenses.
> (In reply to ChrisJD)
> That Panny 20mm pancake is supposed to be an absolute gem, particularly on the Panny bodies.
It is - I've got one. The detail it can get (especially noticeable in portraits) can match my DSLR with L lenses.
In reply to ChrisJD:
That's quite something then! Recently saw a mates portrait session taken with the 50 f1.4 on 5d111, incredibly sharp! Like MF quality.
That's quite something then! Recently saw a mates portrait session taken with the 50 f1.4 on 5d111, incredibly sharp! Like MF quality.
In reply to dek:
....quickly adds that its not a new generation DSLR before the pixel peepers demand proof!!....
....quickly adds that its not a new generation DSLR before the pixel peepers demand proof!!....
In reply to ChrisJD:
Yup! A never ending treadmill of 'improving' digicams. Pity I cant see a corresponding increase in my photography?!
> (In reply to dek)
>
> ....quickly adds that its not a new generation DSLR before the pixel peepers demand proof!!....
>
> ....quickly adds that its not a new generation DSLR before the pixel peepers demand proof!!....
Yup! A never ending treadmill of 'improving' digicams. Pity I cant see a corresponding increase in my photography?!
In reply to Richard Carter: Been following this one with interest. Looked on amazon for prices. But is it me or do the first couple of positive reviews seem a bit too detailed and false? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-NEX5NKB-Compact-System-Camera/dp/B005JQTHCC/re...
In reply to cap'nChino: *but
In reply to Richard Carter: A very happy GF1 user here, had various lower end slrs but wants something a bit more portable that I would actually use.
Craig Mod's Field Test swung it for me and I've been very happy with my purchase.
Cass Gilbert also uses one and is very happy with his, check his blog: whileoutriding.com
Craig Mod's Field Test swung it for me and I've been very happy with my purchase.
Cass Gilbert also uses one and is very happy with his, check his blog: whileoutriding.com
In reply to Richard Carter:
Jessops have them if you want a feel of it. Autofocus is meant to be pretty slow but pictures good and very good for video
> The EOS M, seems to be smaller than a few 4/3rds camera strangely. I'd only really use the 22mm so lenses aren't an issue I guess.
>
> Arrgh, going to have to find a shop selling them somewhere, there's too much choice.
>
> Arrgh, going to have to find a shop selling them somewhere, there's too much choice.
Jessops have them if you want a feel of it. Autofocus is meant to be pretty slow but pictures good and very good for video
In reply to Richard Carter: have you decided yet?
Why has the Samsung NX20 been missed out on the last. I played with one today, by far the easiest to use with the controls being identical to a DSLR I.e. rollers instead of going in to menu function. What is the catch with the Samsung? Jessops even offer a free Samsung tablet with one.
Why has the Samsung NX20 been missed out on the last. I played with one today, by far the easiest to use with the controls being identical to a DSLR I.e. rollers instead of going in to menu function. What is the catch with the Samsung? Jessops even offer a free Samsung tablet with one.
In reply to myth: last = list
In reply to myth:
Yeah I went for the Canon M. I went to Jessops to look at the Sony NEX as it was on sale there, but the guy was so adament that the EOS M was total rubbish and one of the worst cameras ever made, that I had to get one if only to try it out :-P
Didn't get it there though as it was nearly £500 more expensive in Jessops than I could get it online - I'm not joking! I got the two lenses, spare battery and a flash, I'll have it in a couple of days.
Yeah I went for the Canon M. I went to Jessops to look at the Sony NEX as it was on sale there, but the guy was so adament that the EOS M was total rubbish and one of the worst cameras ever made, that I had to get one if only to try it out :-P
Didn't get it there though as it was nearly £500 more expensive in Jessops than I could get it online - I'm not joking! I got the two lenses, spare battery and a flash, I'll have it in a couple of days.
In reply to Richard Carter:
Hi Richard, where did you get it from btw? I'm toying with it myself.
Cheers
David
Hi Richard, where did you get it from btw? I'm toying with it myself.
Cheers
David
In reply to cap'nChino:
I recently bought an NEX 5N (to replace a Canon 450D DSLR which was just to big) and have been utterly blown away so far.
There's loads of independent reviews online, have a google.
Seriously impressive bit of kit for the money and fits nicely in a little holster on my pack or belt - just what I needed.
> (In reply to Richard Carter) Been following this one with interest. Looked on amazon for prices. But is it me or do the first couple of positive reviews seem a bit too detailed and false? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-NEX5NKB-Compact-System-Camera/dp/B005JQTHCC/re...
I recently bought an NEX 5N (to replace a Canon 450D DSLR which was just to big) and have been utterly blown away so far.
There's loads of independent reviews online, have a google.
Seriously impressive bit of kit for the money and fits nicely in a little holster on my pack or belt - just what I needed.
In reply to professionalwreckhead:
I am leaning towards the NX5 too. The Canon would be nice but I think it would end up costing me more in the long run with adapters etc.
Myth mentioned the Samsung NX20, jessops seem to be doings a good deal on these are the moment £719 with 2 lenses and a free tablet. Anyone used a Samsung, deal seems too good to be true?
> (In reply to cap'nChino)
> [...]
>
> I recently bought an NEX 5N (to replace a Canon 450D DSLR which was just to big) and have been utterly blown away so far.
>
> There's loads of independent reviews online, have a google.
>
> Seriously impressive bit of kit for the money and fits nicely in a little holster on my pack or belt - just what I needed.
> [...]
>
> I recently bought an NEX 5N (to replace a Canon 450D DSLR which was just to big) and have been utterly blown away so far.
>
> There's loads of independent reviews online, have a google.
>
> Seriously impressive bit of kit for the money and fits nicely in a little holster on my pack or belt - just what I needed.
I am leaning towards the NX5 too. The Canon would be nice but I think it would end up costing me more in the long run with adapters etc.
Myth mentioned the Samsung NX20, jessops seem to be doings a good deal on these are the moment £719 with 2 lenses and a free tablet. Anyone used a Samsung, deal seems too good to be true?
In reply to Richard Carter: Theres a review of the Samsung nx20 on this link.http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/samsung_nx20_review/conclusion/
In reply to Richard Carter:
This is a crop (>50%) of an image from the NEX-7:
http://upload.pbase.com/chris_craggs/image/147580617/original
As I said - astounding!
Chris
This is a crop (>50%) of an image from the NEX-7:
http://upload.pbase.com/chris_craggs/image/147580617/original
As I said - astounding!
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
That is amazing Chris, for a 50% crop. What lens you have? And what is the one you're waiting for?
The relative lens size is what has put me off these cams so far, for climbing purposes.
That is amazing Chris, for a 50% crop. What lens you have? And what is the one you're waiting for?
The relative lens size is what has put me off these cams so far, for climbing purposes.
In reply to Damo:
That shot is taken with the 'kit' (joke!) 18-55mm (28-80 equiv) which as you suggest is a pretty bulky (a lot smaller than a DSLR mind.
They are producing a 14-50 power zoom some time soon that looks about half the size - could be ideal.
Chris
That shot is taken with the 'kit' (joke!) 18-55mm (28-80 equiv) which as you suggest is a pretty bulky (a lot smaller than a DSLR mind.
They are producing a 14-50 power zoom some time soon that looks about half the size - could be ideal.
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Thought you was going to say it was with the fancy Carl zeiss lens..
Pretty impressive with the 18/55
Thought you was going to say it was with the fancy Carl zeiss lens..
Pretty impressive with the 18/55
In reply to walts4:
Also no sharpening involved, just lens correction/chromic aberration fettled in Lightroom.
Chris
> (In reply to Chris Craggs)
>
> Thought you was going to say it was with the fancy Carl zeiss lens..
>
> Pretty impressive with the 18/55
>
> Thought you was going to say it was with the fancy Carl zeiss lens..
>
> Pretty impressive with the 18/55
Also no sharpening involved, just lens correction/chromic aberration fettled in Lightroom.
Chris
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