UKH

Dan Bailey reviews three synthetic insulated jackets, made by UK-based brands, and built with the soggy British cold in mind. He finds the Montane Flux, Rab Generator Alpine and Mountain Equipment Fitzroy are just as good for walkers as climbers.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4457

In reply to UKC Gear:

Good, informative reviews, thanks.

Not sure why low handwarmer pockets is a problem though. I'd consider all of these to be belay jackets - way too warm to climb in usually - so they're going on over your harness anyway. High pockets are undoubtedly where it's at in shells but on belay jackets I prefer the functionality of low ones for actually warming my hands!

Not sure I agree on the lack of use of internal chest pockets either. They rock for warming/drying gloves, warming gas canisters, etc...

In reply to jadias: Thanks Jadias

I run pretty warm and haven't found any of these three 'way' too hot when climbing. Not invariably anyway, though obviously they would be at times. I don't think they're any warmer than a fleece and shell combined, for instance. When climbing in them I've dispensed with a shell (except on one very wild day), and in that situation the low pockets are a pain. I can't see any compelling reason to put them so low down. I can warm my hands fine in the Montane's more harness-friendly pockets, I don't think their being placed higher hampers hand warming at all.

Good ideas re the internal pockets, I've always wondered what they're for.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Fair enough, we all operate differently! Personally I'd probably not consider a climbing layer with more than 60g of insulation (I've climbed in my Patagucci Nano Puff a few times and it's been great) and I'd take a 100g jacket as being in light to moderate belay jacket territory so low pockets and huge internal pockets make sense to me. In a climbing layer, clearly, they're going to be a bit odd.

I wonder what the manfacturers' intended use was for each garment?

In reply to jadias:

I climb in my Fitzroy (fifth layer from skin!) with a shell over the top as routine. I have a proper, much warmer, belay jacket to put on over my shell when belaying.

Worth mentioning for those interested -
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/index.cfm/product/outdoor-research-mens-chao...

Outdoor Research Chaos Jacket for £120 in Cotswold sale.

In reply to drmarten: Montane Prism 2 better than all these, lighter, ideal for belaying and big enough to go over everything if required. Stuffs into it's own pocket too. £80.00 - £100.00

In reply to Robert Durran:


Wow. That sounds a lot! You clearly need to eat some more pies like me to get away with a few less layers.

In reply to drmarten: Big difference between Primalft One and Eco. TNF Redpoint for me.

In reply to ColdWill:

What is it then? I spent some time on the Primaloft website trying to work it out, but with little success. Some small amounts of info on, IIRC, the REI website.

In reply to TobyA: From my own experience it is considerably heavier if you hold a like for like jacket in each hand and absorbs more moisture in use. It is also less compressible, again from my own experience. I thought these ‘facts’ were common knowledge.

In reply to TobyA: Strange that, there is virtually no info except the CLO/g/m3 rating on the website which indicates that weight for weight P one is warmer than P eco. I dunno, as Dane.

In reply to UKC Gear:

I've owned a Flux jacket for a year or so now and it’s been great. I couldn’t get the ME Fitzroy at the time so had a good look round at other jackets a settled on the Flux. The jackets been really warm with what seems like a good balance of insulation in the arms and body. It fits me pretty well although it would be nice if it was a little bit longer as it can ride up a bit with a harness. It’s got lots of nice features but one thing is a little strange. The cuffs have a double layered 'protective' patch on the outside, why it’s not on the inside where the jacket rubs against the rock as you climb, I have no idea.

I’ve found the hood to OK with helmet although you can’t do the main zip all the way up. It’s massive without a helmet! The peaks not great, oven with the wire it could do with being stiffer. Maybe another elastic drawstring is needed to go around the top of the head like you find on hard-shells?

The whole thing squashes (with a bit of a struggle) into its hand pocket and can be zipped up. Normally it sits in the bottom of my winter bag to crack out if it gets really cold or in an emergency. The primaloft appears to be getting a bit thin in places but it has never had a wash so that should sort it out.

All in all I've been really happy with it, yes the ME Fitzroy may be slightly better, but its made me have a look at some of Montane other kit and I would recommend it if it fits you.

In reply to UKC Gear:

I have the alpine generator and cant fault it in any way. I cant comment on its warmth compared to the other two but it kept me warm enough camping on pen-y-fan at about -10c. I''ve also found it pretty much weather proof, not once have I felt wet whilst wearing it even in some pretty heavy rain. I doubt it will keep me dry in a prolonged downpour but then I would be wearing a hardshell if that were the case.

I dont know if it applies to all montane gear but my montane venture waterproof has a very narrow neck. If I try to zip it up, hood up, with a helmet it chokes me and there is pretty much no head movement. I also cant zip it up if im wearing my rab baltoro underneath as the neck is too tight, even without the hood up and a helmet on.

I do have a few other bits from montane though all of which I have found excellent. It does sound like montane designers all have skinny necks, unless I have a fat neck??

Either way it looks to me like the main reason to but one of these jackets over the other is which one has the best cut for you and whic one you can find the cheapest. Apart from that they all seem to do the same job equally as well.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Thanks Dan for this very informative and for me, timely, review. I'm trying to decide between the Generator and Fitzroy jackets, but am also considering the Haglofs Barrier 2 and the Montane Prism as outsider choices.

I'd also like to have heard your opinions on ease of compression for when they might be clipped to one's harness. I'm aiming to get one for the non-winter seasons on multi-pitch routes, so this is quite an important issue for me.

In reply to Fraser:

Arcteryx Atom SV hoody! Best of the lot!

In reply to JayPee630:

Cheers, I managed to have a look at one yesterday...then saw the price tag! Will need to pass on that option, but it did look quite nice; for me though, it's not worth the price differential over, say, a Generator.

In reply to TobyA:

my understanding is P1 is hydrophilic and warmer per weight. I get the feeling Eco is cheaper.


I have a Berghaus Ignite hoody which is very similar to the Rab Alpine generator in fill P1 100/60, a tad lighter as it doesn't have the extra map pocket. Also a really good jacket and available it seems on sale. I have a flux which i dont think as warm but great fit for me in a medium (for
general climbing/wear) but i need a large as a belay jacket to chuck over everything and the Berghaus was available in right size (and bright yellow!)

In reply to Fraser: Hi Fraser

Good idea, I hadn't thought to check that as I tend to just chuck jackets into my rucksack rather than a stuff sack. I've now done a quick comparison with a random stuff sack. There's really not much in it. For what it's worth though, the difference in compressability is proportionate to the weight of each jacket - as you'd expect I guess. So the Fitzroy is (marginally) bulkiest, the Flux is in the middle and the Generator Alpine packs down smallest. But as I say, the difference between them all isn't huge.

Cheers

In reply to lithos: P1 is hydrophobic, it is siliconised fibres to hold away moisture. works very well I have an old P1/Pertex jkt that I dont think I have managed to get wet in

To others, re primaloft differences, varying reports and stories, nothing confirmed

Sport is standard fibre
Eco is standard fibre made from 50% recycled source
One is standard fibre siliconised

reason One is warmer is because it is less "breathable" and therefore retains more heat

In reply to gear boy: From what I've seen they're all pretty effective. The cut and fit of a jacket is 10x more important than which fill is used.

In reply to Fraser:

if you want a lightweight top for this use you could look at

Montane fireball
Rab Generator smock
OMM rotor smock
TNF Zephyrus pull on
Patagonia nano pullover

Unless you want a jacket...

In reply to Guy Hurst: Agree!

In reply to Fraser:


Don't get the Prism if you ever want to use it with a helmet. The hood is ridiculously small, so small in fact that it feels uncomfortable even without a helmet (and I would say my head size is pretty normal). Except for that, it's a nice enough jacket.

In reply to UKC Gear:

The Rab Generator Alpine is great in many respects and I use it loads but three limitations of it at present stand out for me
- Pockets are nylon-lined and cold: could really do with fleece
- Pockets are too low to use when they are under a harness
- Weather-proof zips are over-engineering for a non-waterproof jacket and are stiff

In reply to gear boy:

Cheers for the suggestions. I'm coming round to think that the Generator smock is the one for me. The Nano Puff is too expensive and it just 'feels' too thin to be warm, even though I know they get great reviews and are no doubt very toasty. I'm looking for a top that's very portable (ie compressible) on the harness and will give protection from windy/showery weather while waiting on belays. The issue of pockets being uninsulated is therefore not so important for me, but a good point to consider for others. I liked the Prism's pockets, but the hood didn't impress me either and the whole thing felt too thick bulky.

I know that if I had to, I'd be able to climb freely in the Generator, but not so sure about others, with the exception of the Nano.

In reply to Fraser: of the pull over I listed the rab is the warmest with 100g body then gucci with 60g the others use 40g

I kind of like a pocket for shoving a choccy bar in, thats about it on this type of product, dont need hood as thats going into realms of weather protection and then I think about more water resistance

I like a simple 40g fill pull over, small light simple works